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Trump has named a new EPA director. How concerned are you about climate change?

Very Concerned
Somewhat concerned
Not very concerned
No concern at all.



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1. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (12/7/2016 11:02:21 PM)
     Message ID #276196

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President-elect Donald J. Trump has selected Scott Pruitt, the Oklahoma attorney general and a close ally of the fossil fuel industry, to run the Environmental Protection Agency, which, according to the NYTimes, signals Mr. Trump’s determination to dismantle President Obama’s efforts to counter climate change — and much of the E.P.A. itself.

In this NYTimes article, many voiced concerns about Trump's appointment:

“During the campaign, Mr. Trump regularly threatened to dismantle the E.P.A. and roll back many of the gains made to reduce Americans’ exposures to industrial pollution, and with Pruitt, the president-elect would make good on those threats,” said Ken Cook, head of the Environmental Working Group, a Washington research and advocacy organization.

“It’s a safe assumption that Pruitt could be the most hostile E.P.A. administrator toward clean air and safe drinking water in history,” he added.


Bernie Sanders voiced his concerns about the nomination as well:

“At a time when climate change is the great environmental threat to the entire planet, it is sad and dangerous that Mr. Trump has nominated Scott Pruitt to lead the E.P.A.,” said Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, who sits on the committee that must confirm him. “The American people must demand leaders who are willing to transform our energy system away from fossil fuels. I will vigorously oppose this nomination.”

On the flip side, Trump has said that climate change was a hoax created by China to give China a competitive edge. He promised to lift clean air regulations in order to keep jobs in coal country.

With 97% of the scientists in the country believing that climate change is real and that at least some of climate change is caused by human activity, one wonders why we would not all want to protect the environment.

See: An Open Letter From Scientists To President-Elect Trump On Climate Change http://snips.ly/Y8 More than 800 Earth scientists and energy experts have so far signed an open letter addressed to President-Elect Donald Trump urging him to take climate change seriously, and to commit to six key steps to address climate change.

However, there is another group of scientists who believe that climate change is a normal fluctuation of the planet and that computer models do not tell the real story. Therefore, a lot of the regulation that has been proposed nationally and internationally is unnecessary.

    Those who do not believe that climate change is a critical issue, say (among many statements):


1) Earth's climate has always warmed and cooled, and the 20th century rise in global temperature is within the bounds of natural temperature fluctuations over the past 3,000 years

2) Rising levels of atmospheric CO2 do not necessarily cause global warming, which contradicts the core thesis of human-caused climate change.

3)Human-produced CO2 is re-absorbed by oceans, forests, and other "carbon sinks," negating any climate changes.

4) Predictions of accelerating human-caused climate change are based upon computerized climate models that are inadequate and incorrect.

For detail on the above statements and more arguments/detail, please go to: Climate Change: Pro/Con http://climatechange.procon.org


    Those who believe that climate change must be addressed immediately say (among many other statements: )


1) Rising levels of human-produced gases released into the atmosphere create a greenhouse effect that traps heat and causes global warming

2) The rise in atmospheric CO2 over the last century was clearly caused by human activity, as it occurred at a rate much faster than natural climate changes could produce.

3) The specific type of CO2 that is increasing in earth's atmosphere can be directly connected to human activity.

4) Global warming caused by human-produced greenhouse gases is causing the Arctic ice cap to melt at an increasing rate.

For detail on the above statements and more arguments/detail, please go to: Climate Change: Pro/Con http://climatechange.procon.org

What do you think? Is the earth important enough to begin to care about climate change or is climate change just bunk?

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2. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/8/2016 1:40:17 AM)
     Message ID #276197

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In a manner of speaking,

I'm also concerned with the fact that America is sitting on the world's largest Caldera and it is overdue to blow us all to Kingdom come...

...but I don't lose any sleep.

Whatever happens - in either case - is well beyond our science... and both are natural processes of the planet we live on.

The only reason we make such a fuss is that "thar's gold in dem hills" - meaning that people can easily be coaxed to squander Trillions on the 'Chicken Little Scam'.

Really. Do we need any more proof that people will conjure incredible lies and beat them like a drum until stupidity itself seems to make sense? They will use the media, the academic community, and whatever else they need to 'make the sky fall'.

Relax folks. Worry about your own lives - and ignore those who perpetually feign the 'high ground' to level your liberties and empty your pockets.

3. Andy White CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (12/8/2016 1:49:35 AM)
     Message ID #276198

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #276196 )  View All Related Messages

So which is it? Climate change or reining in a government regulatory agency run amok? I'll take Door #2.

We elect representatives and senators who, as the federal government legislative branch, make the laws of the land.

Federal (and state and local) bureaucracies have burgeoned to the point that their rules and regulations made by non-elected federal employees pale in comparison even to the laws made by Congress. Ever heard of a government agency being disbanded when its original purpose had been met and mission completed? Me, neither.

The sweeping powers of the EPA are among the worst of the worst. They can stop you from using your own land, shut down your business or industry depending on which way the wind blows, and, if I remember correctly, they still have armed agents to make sure you don't disturb the spotted owls or the blind salamanders.

If AG Pruitt can tame the EPA, then Mr. Trump will have done a Good Thing, and I hope it's just the beginning.

I, for one among many, am looking forward to many more such victories in the fight for smaller government and fewer bureaucrats.


4. M Bathurst
     (12/8/2016 1:50:07 AM)
     Message ID #276199

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #276197 )  View All Related Messages

Nicely stated.

5. M Bathurst
     (12/8/2016 1:52:55 AM)
     Message ID #276200

This message is in response to Andy White ( message id #276198 )  View All Related Messages

I wish your could see the smile on my face. Welcome back Dr. White. I hope things are going well.

6. Andy White CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (12/8/2016 1:55:32 AM)
     Message ID #276201

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #276200 )  View All Related Messages

It's probably gas.

7. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/8/2016 1:56:36 AM)
     Message ID #276202

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... and what if I'm wrong!

Suppose its all true - and people are causing it?

If you find yourself up to your neck in feces and urine because there are too many people who need to relieve themselves...

...do you trim the numbers a bit - or do you give millions to a man who has a plan to build a mile wide shovel?

When we take our population seriously... we will know we are concerned about things like this. Right now, we don't. Why? There is no money in it!

8. M Bathurst
     (12/8/2016 2:07:17 AM)
     Message ID #276203

This message is in response to Andy White ( message id #276201 )  View All Related Messages

Nice, but nope - just nice to have an adult return. I will try to be better.

9. Jefferson Packer
     (12/8/2016 2:28:13 AM)
     Message ID #276204

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I am deeply concerned about climate change, but it's just one of the wide array of environmental concerns I have.

Along with the warming of the planet and all the chaos that is already beginning from it, I'm concerned about the effect of invasive species on trees all over the world. I'm not going to cite examples because a quick Google search will tell you all you want to know. I'm concerned about coral reef calcification. I'm concerned about carbon building up in the oceans and the resulting chemical changes that could endanger plankton and therefore all living things in the sea. I'm concerned about miles-wide rafts of plastic in the ocean, and the devastation it causes to marine life. I'm concerned about the bees, and about all of our pollinators.

But most of all, I'm concerned that there are hundreds of depleted undersea oil wells all over the planet that have been "plugged" or "capped" with nothing more durable than an injection of concrete. How long before those caps start crumbling and blowing? Fifty years? Thirty?

I'm equally concerned about nuclear waste. The nuclear power industry may well go down in history as the single most arrogant thing mankind has ever done. Thousands of tons of high level radioactive waste is currently sitting in holding tanks all over the world, waiting to be dealt with. Will Fukushima simply be remembered as the first place where the whole infrastructure began to come apart? We're talking about metals that are seriously radioactive for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years. You can't just put them in a land fill or dump them in the sea. Mankind is going to have to have a stewardship over them for longer than we have actually existed in our present, homo sapiens form. And the average human can't manage to keep an insurance policy current, never mind taking care of something for hundreds of generations.

Climate change is just the tip of the iceberg. Seven billion people is about four or five billion too many for the long term health of this planet. The human population is going to have to be drastically reduced. The only question I have is, are we going to take charge and reduce our own population in a controlled and planned way? Or is the planet going to take charge and do it for us, in the most brutal way imaginable?

10. Victor Lee
     (12/8/2016 5:02:50 AM)
     Message ID #276205

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Welcome back, Andy. Things were going to hell without you.


No species will ever be the captain of its own destiny. It's a matter of Time Scales and Unintended Consequences.

Successful cloud-roping the latter are impossible and human organizations are simply dissipative and ineffective. A good leader can't lead in sufficient depth and for a long enough duration to have an effect over a broad enough scope to make a difference.

We can't even make traffic laws work.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse will always ride. Good for them.
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