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When faced with two controversial candidates, would you opt for ...

Lewd and obnoxious and politically inexperienced
A boring policy wonk with a past
Neither — I’m either voting for someone else or not voting
There’s another way to view the candidates — here it is



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1. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (10/8/2016 7:19:20 PM)
     Message ID #269824

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Drawing on wisdom from the Bible, both Abraham Lincoln and Mark Twain are credited with versions of the admonition, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.” When it comes to politics, which is better: the loudmouth who may be lewd and obnoxious or the silent one with plenty to hide?

Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have their proponents and detractors, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. In a month, many people are going to decide whether to vote for one or against the other in a presidential race the likes of which many of us hope we’ll never see again.

If you believe even a fraction of what you see and hear and read, one could say …

    Hillary has an honesty problem, and Donald has a mouth problem.

    Hillary has political experience. Donald has business experience.

    Hillary is a woman. Donald … isn’t.

    Hillary resonates with the left political establishment. Donald resonates with the fed-up, right dis-establishment. (We're not sure there still is a middle.)
So what’s going to happen on November 8th?
  • Will the outcome turn on voting for or voting against?

  • How big a turnout do you think we will see? Record highs, record lows, or average?

  • America doesn’t have mandatory voting like some Western countries such as Australia. Should we?

  • Assuming you've made up your mind, is there anything Hillary and / or Donald can do in the next month that would change your vote? What?


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Message edited by user at 10/8/2016 7:25:24 PM

2. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/25/2016 12:58:55 AM)
     Message ID #270929

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First, I voted my usual "Neither". Like it or not, at least I'm consistent.

Will the outcome turn on voting for or voting against?

Good question (one among several) but I suspect it'll turn on people holding their noses and voting for the one they consider the most palatable among the detritus and filth from which we have to choose.


How big a turnout do you think we will see? Record highs, record lows, or average?

It could go either way and I really can't tell.


America doesn’t have mandatory voting like some Western countries such as Australia. Should we?

As the old adage goes: "Freedom Isn't Free, Somebody Has To Pay For It." and in that vein every citizen should feel the necessity to Vote in it's elections and if necessary to obtain that participation (and in this day and age it would appear so) then "Yes", it should be made mandatory.


Assuming you've made up your mind, is there anything Hillary and / or Donald can do in the next month that would change your vote? What?

The short answer is "No" and the long one is "No, not only No but HELL! No!"

It's a damn shame there isn't a mandatory AND BINDING "None of the Above" option on every ballot and for every office.

3. Bruce Wing
     (10/25/2016 3:15:51 AM)
     Message ID #270931

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #269824 )  View All Related Messages

Well you have a treasonous crook with a 30 year history of scandal and lying and shady deals and then there is Trump.
At least he might clean the swamp in Washington and Hilary's squad of slanderers will continue to undermine him though most if not all have been proven false. He is far from perfect but he does echo what many of us feel about the progressive agenda.

4. D Robb
     (10/25/2016 6:25:02 AM)
     Message ID #270932

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I was part of the 60% that approved of Secretary Clinton before the Republicans began their intensive and expensive campaign to smear her with investigations and innuendo. I am part of the majority that approves of President Obama. Therefore, I have not been fooled by the smoke screen of unsubstantiated charges, or the depiction of America as being a dark, horrible place. Clearly, the paranoia that drove Secretary Clinton to make the mistake of having a private server was justified. The GOP was out to get her. However, there is no evidence that she did anything criminal or that anyone hacked into her server and stole secrets. The Russian hack into the DNC and the Wikileaks leaks have shown that most of what the campaign has emailed is pretty boring stuff.
I think you will see record voting on the left. My experience with the right (my brother is an avid Trump supporter) is they complain a lot but don't vote.
Conversely, I was immediately turned off by Trump’s attacks against immigrants, Hispanics, blacks and women. I totally rejected his dystopian view of America as a nation in decline with our inner cities being uninhabitable war zones. My view of Trump only got worse as the campaign has progressed, and after the Access Hollywood tape I knew that I could not vote for him.
It has been a horrible campaign and I share the view of those that will be happy to see it finish in two weeks. I remain optimistic that we will continue to make progress domestically and nationally with our first Woman President.

5. D Robb
     (10/25/2016 6:41:46 AM)
     Message ID #270933

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Trump’s attempt to make himself more relevant and to distract from his inevitable defeat by saying he might or might not concede when he loses really doesn’t matter. It is all explained in this CNN article:
There are, of course, potentially legitimate detours, should the vote count be tighter than expected.
"Forty-three states permit a losing candidate, a voter, a group of voters or other concerned parties to petition for a recount," according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Nearly half of those, along with the District of Columbia, carry a "trigger margin" that, if hit, automatically sets a new count into motion.
The 2000 recount in Florida, which was eventually halted by the Supreme Court in response to a Republican challenge, began not -- as the Trump campaign has suggested -- at the behest of a litigious and sour Al Gore, but in accordance with the state's predetermined rules for sorting such a narrow vote.
In a cosmic twist, a recalcitrant Trump's hopes would likely fall into the hands Republican leaders in Congress. Absent Trump (or those street riots), House Speaker Paul Ryan, the highest-ranking GOP elected official, would probably be looked upon first to offer a concession in his candidate's stead, a sticky situation that could also ensnare Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
How so? Ultimately, the identity of the new president will be certified by the House and Senate, where electoral votes are traditionally delivered in early January, and formally signed off on by the Senate President -- in this case, Vice President Joe Biden. Gore, like Richard Nixon four decades earlier, literally sealed his own fate.
Trump's will likely be settled way before then, but even if the 2016 drama bleeds into next year, it's unlikely to turn on what he says -- or doesn't say.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/24/politics/donald-trump-election-concession-law/

6. D Robb
     (10/25/2016 6:45:38 AM)
     Message ID #270934

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Do we really have to wait to answer your questions? I don’t think so. The good news is that we probably won't have to stay up very late to get the results on November 8th.
In a four-way match-up, Clinton enjoys 46 percent support this week among likely voters, while Trump holds onto 41 percent support. Gary Johnson maintains 7 percent support and Jill Stein has 3 percent support. In a two way race, Clinton enjoys a 6 point lead over Trump with 50 percent support compared to Trump's 44 percent.
These results are according to the latest NBC News|SurveyMonkey Weekly Election Tracking Poll conducted online from October 17 through October 23.
As several prominent GOP party leaders and down-ballot Republican contenders scramble to figure out the potential impact of a Clinton victory in their respective states, 74 percent of likely voters overall say that the GOP is divided and will remain so through the general election in November—only 4 percent say the Republican Party is united now. This is in stark contrast to the perception of the Democratic Party -54 percent of voters overall say that the Democratic Party is united now.

7. Michael O'Neill
     (10/25/2016 6:57:57 AM)
     Message ID #270935

This message is in response to Bruce Wing ( message id #270931 )  View All Related Messages

"Well you have a treasonous crook with a 30 year history of scandal and lying and shady deals and then there is Trump."


Confusing since the first part of your sentence also refers to Trump.

8. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/25/2016 7:16:46 AM)
     Message ID #270936

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #270932 )  View All Related Messages

So was I.

I was never impressed with the smear tactics either... but they were from a much smaller and more concentrated base than Republicans. It was based on economics, not politics. Her ideas were destined to cost powerful people a lot of money - and even to attack the golden goose itself.

The main problem, however, was her husband. He was too independent and had accumulated enough power and allies to threaten them - yet they seemed unable to touch him despite some of the most concerted efforts in history.

That was then.

Her husband has since grown weak and frail. Her fortunes have become entangled with the utterly corrupt Barack Obama. Left to down her own wit it did not take long for the power interests to swill her down like a blue neck clam.

That's when the lying became real. The deception became transparent... and the fruits of graft and corruption began to pile up in her coffers.

Being an idealist, she undoubtedly tells herself that she must do what she must in order to get into a place where she can do good. It doesn't work like that. The is no force more vile than idealism gone bad.

9. Gary Patishnock CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/25/2016 7:36:14 AM)
     Message ID #270937

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There is a profound MORAL difference between the two candidates. I cannot in good conscience vote for or condone anyone who advocates something that is intrinsically evil. Therefore, I cannot cast a vote for one of the two.

I would name names but the Hatch Act Police would be out to get me...

10. SAMUEL G BOGORAD CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/25/2016 8:28:27 AM)
     Message ID #270938

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The premise of the question is flawed.
This election is NOT about two flawed individuals. Rather it is about a coulture that believes and will do anything it can to deprive those it hates and fears the right to vote, to economic equality and justice, to determine their own medical choices free of outside forces, that uses authoritarian practices and tactics to try to cower those it wants to destroy or further enslave.
The list goes on and on. It is not me saying this. Look at the republican record going back decades. They stand for virtually everything vile. Their mouths may say one thing, but their actions do speak louder..
People are stupid. Debate meaningless garbage about two people rather than looking down the road and seeing the bridge is out and the truly immenent danger we are in. A case of not seeing the forest for the trees.
This election is about voting FOR every democrat you can and getting rid of the south which is seeking to rise again in the form of the Republican Party.
This election calls for a deceive win, a really large win by we the people against the forces of the darkness that pervades the hearts and souls of TRUMP and his supporters.
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