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Should all full-time workers enjoy paid sick leave?

Maybe - depending on the job
I have another take - here it is

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1. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (9/30/2016 11:25:53 PM)
     Message ID #269378

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Believing sick leave to be a basic labor standard, President Obama set the example for employers by requiring federal contractors to provide paid sick leave. His Executive Order eventually will allow "an estimated 1.1 million people to accrue up to seven days of paid sick leave a year."

The sick leave rule for federal contractors is among others promoted by the president such as a minimum hourly wage and time-and-a-half overtime pay. The president's efforts have not been without opposition. Both the United States Chamber of Commerce and the International Franchise Association are against the measures making the familiar cost/benefit argument.

The Obama administration counters by saying fair wages, safe workplaces and sick pay are investments in human capital and that treating workers well is also the right thing to do.

NYT op-ed:

What do you see ahead?

  • Just as minimum wage and overtime pay factor into operating costs, so do paid sick days. Would you pay more for X to ensure fair treatment of workers?

  • When companies consider short-term profits and long-term capital investments, what is the right balance?

  • With sick leave specifically, there's the contagion factor. How do you react when a sick co-worker coughs and sniffles around everyone else? Do you wish they were anywhere but at the next desk?

  • Being able to take sick leave especially benefits single parents and those taking care of elderly parents. Can you think of a better alternative?

  • What do you think America's workforce and workplace will look like in another generation?

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Message edited by user at 9/30/2016 11:29:08 PM

2. Jeffrey Boire CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/18/2016 6:51:28 AM)
     Message ID #270440

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I never missed a day of school all the way through elementary, secondary, and college, ever.

3. Rick Spector CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/18/2016 7:20:21 AM)
     Message ID #270441

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Here's a counterpoint to those who argue about the cost of absenteeism:

4. Rick Spector CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/18/2016 7:21:43 AM)
     Message ID #270442

This message is in response to Rick Spector ( message id #270441 )  View All Related Messages

I'll add to that, as someone who is self-employed, if you have germs I don't want them. Stay home. Stay away from me. I don't -- and won't EVER get paid sick days.

I remember a few years ago I had to shoot video of a compulsory medical exam (CME). The examinee showed up with some kind of respiratory bug and was coughing and spitting all over the place. By the end of the week I was sick as the proverbial dog. I had another job with that doc about a month later. He had gotten sick from this clown, too. And we both said -- "Why couldn't this bozo have canceled and rescheduled?"

Message edited by user at 10/18/2016 7:24:43 AM

5. Domenick Aulozzi CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/18/2016 9:07:53 AM)
     Message ID #270443

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #269378 )  View All Related Messages

As with many of these types of questions; they are instigated by the federal government requiring this of everyone.

The federal government has no business getting involved in this and it is just a cheap political act for a political end.

As far as the question; if it is between an employer and an employee?
I went for decades without a sick day taken. My wife has health issues and is usually pushing the limits of her sick days allowed. It is a definite benefit if your employer can offer it. I guess that is the point though; it is something "offered" by the employer and should be looked at as a "benefit" by the employee, not as a "right."

6. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/18/2016 9:26:45 AM)
     Message ID #270444

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There is absolutely no difference between granting an employee a free sick day and granting a business owner a free employee workday.

The existence of paid sick days is a mark of compassion. As a compassionate act it does not violate the property rights the nation was founded on.

If you legislate it - it is no longer a compassionate act - and it is no longer legal under our system. There are, of coarse, those who want to legislate it... but that is simply the tyranny of the majority that is trying to legislate funds from someone else's account into their own. We call that stealing.

7. D Robb
     (10/18/2016 9:41:58 AM)
     Message ID #270445

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The Army doesn’t have a specific number of sick days. It is basically unlimited. If a person is unable to work then he/she is terminated and is probably eligible for medical retirement or disability. As was stated earlier in this forum, if you are sick you shouldn’t be at work. If you have major surgery or give birth you need time to recover. You should be paid during that time.
In Germany, they are required, by law, to offer unlimited sick days, and the economy hasn’t suffered.
Like some on this forum I have been blessed with good health. Two hospital stays for major surgery (64 years apart) from which I quickly recovered but the last one took me three weeks before I would have been able to work if I hadn’t been retired. My only period of repeated sickness came after I married my middle school wife and she proceeded to bring home every imaginable communicable disease. She never was sick, but it seemed like I caught everything going around.
The reasons for legislating sick leave is the same as requiring health insurance. It evens the playing field and prevents individuals (employers or employees) from avoiding their community responsibilities and not paying their fair share.
Most states require that you buy auto liability insurance. Mortgage holders require that you buy insurance on your house. Drivers pay a gasoline tax to cover upkeep on the roads they use. It equitably shares the benefits and costs.

8. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (10/18/2016 10:21:28 AM)
     Message ID #270446

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I bundle vacation and sick days into Paid Time off (PTO) That way, if you really get sick you can get paid for a much longer period of time and if you don't get sick, you can take those days off with pay.

I think PTO is the best and easiest way to deal with staff and time off/sickness. There is a limit to how much time can be "rolled over" to the next year. I want my staff to take time off and not to show up if they are sick. they can also work from home if they prefer when they are not ill enough to have to be in bed, but don't want to share their germs.

9. D Robb
     (10/18/2016 10:27:16 AM)
     Message ID #270447

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #270446 )  View All Related Messages

Excellent. Clearly, working from home, when it is practicable, is a win-win for the business, individual, and society. I had a translator in Germany who was divorced with two young kids. She was taking time off when her kids got sick. We agreed she could work from home. I had very good experience with how many pages of translation you would normally accomplish in a day. Her production actually went up when she worked from home because, I suspect, she worked longer hours to keep the 'benefit'.
Unfortunately, with some exceptions, loyalty has been lost in many of our businesses. Employers have no loyalty to their employees so employees reciprocate. Something else it would be good to bring back.

10. Rick Spector CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/18/2016 10:35:43 AM)
     Message ID #270448

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #270446 )  View All Related Messages

I like that, Patricia. It seems to answer the concerns all the way around the table.
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