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Should everyone stand for the national anthem?

It depends - the First Amendment prevails
I have another take - here it is

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1. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (9/18/2016 1:55:00 PM)
     Message ID #268469

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A veteran with no legs rises from his wheelchair and 'stands' for the playing of the national anthem before a game.

A multi-millionaire NFL player with a whole body sits in protest for the national anthem before a game.

  • Who is right? Either? Both?

  • The veteran who fought for the freedoms we enjoy or the player who is exercising one of those freedoms?

  • Do the protestors' perceived slights overshadow respect for our nation, flag, and anthem?

  • If freedom to disrespect is exercised often enough, hard enough, and long enough, what happens to the defense of the freedoms?

  • The First Amendment encourages discussion, dissent, and displays that sometimes test our tolerance. What's a good way for something positive to happen here?

  • Where you stand on an issue often is determined by where you sit. Well?

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Message edited by user at 9/18/2016 1:57:59 PM

2. Andy White CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (9/18/2016 4:14:10 PM)
     Message ID #268471

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Hmmm ... the NFL won't let the Dallas Cowboys put a sticker on their helmets supporting the police officers killed by a sniper ... yet they have nothing to say against players sitting, raising fists, or generally disrespecting the national anthem.


It's a world gone mad. Why not boycott the NFL?

3. M Bathurst
     (10/4/2016 12:23:50 AM)
     Message ID #269513

This message is in response to Andy White ( message id #268471 )  View All Related Messages

Well said.

I had been a SF fan for over 30 years. No more. Nor do I watch the NFL unless in a social setting .

4. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/4/2016 1:07:11 AM)
     Message ID #269515

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They are both right. Either you believe the 1st amendment or you don't. Freedom also means the freedom to disagree.

Message edited by user at 10/4/2016 1:21:52 AM

5. M Bathurst
     (10/4/2016 1:35:27 AM)
     Message ID #269516

This message is in response to Rick T ( message id #269515 )  View All Related Messages

The 1st Amendment applies to the government, not the NFL or any team management / ownership. He is an employee subject to their requirements.

6. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/4/2016 1:41:33 AM)
     Message ID #269517

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #269516 )  View All Related Messages

The Bill of Rights apply to citizens of this country.

You seem to be saying the NFL should do what you want them to. I think they're wise to stay out of it.

7. M Bathurst
     (10/4/2016 2:10:26 AM)
     Message ID #269518

This message is in response to Rick T ( message id #269517 )  View All Related Messages

The restrictions of the 1st Amendment applies to government; not private individuals, corporations and employers.

As an employer, I may not tell my employees what to think, who to vote for, etc. (nor would I want to). But, if their actions drew negative attention to my business, I could tell them to stop or terminate them; and, I would.

In your opinion, the NFL is wise to ignore this "protest" based upon mythology. It is my opinion, that in the end it will cost them viewers and $$$. The NFL is already experiencing a decline in viewers. They can do as they please, it is their organization. However, as a SF 49er fan for over 30 years; no longer. If I were an NFL owner, I would politely explain to everyone in the organization, they are free to believe what they please in the proper time and place; but, if they embarrassed the team in this manner, my attorneys would be looking for a manner in which to release them without pay. And, the coaches would be told to place them on the practice team.

8. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/4/2016 2:38:00 AM)
     Message ID #269519

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #269518 )  View All Related Messages

Yeah, no that's not going to happen. Maybe you should try listening to their concerns....

Oh, that's right, you think we're all imagining this, that you only know the truth and that's all you care about. Well, good luck with that, eh?

Message edited by user at 10/4/2016 2:40:32 AM

9. Fred Moore
     (10/4/2016 5:10:57 AM)
     Message ID #269520

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I'm from the old school: "love it or leave it!" no exceptions. One is not forced to live in the US of A.

10. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (10/4/2016 7:03:40 AM)
     Message ID #269522

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America is many things...

Greatest of all is that it is an interest group. It differed from most of the world that came before it in that it is not a nation of the Elite, the Aristocracy or the Kings. It is an interest group of, by and for the people.

The reason such an interest group was so rare is because it allowed everyone to pursuer their own interests by creating a series of laws - called civil rights - that prevent anyone from tearing those safeguards down.

Nope, they weren't perfect. Everyone didn't start at the same point.. and we are all a product of our times. Yet it endured - and progressed for many years... before it failed.

Yes. It's done. The safeguards are gone; the progress has stopped; and the America of today exists primarily for the few. That's life.

In their private letters, men such as Franklin noted that it will undoubtedly be lost from time to time... and he wondered if we could ever bring it back. Yes, Mr. Franklin... someone will ultimately bring it back... but it may not be us - and it may not be here.

When you lose track of the concept of self interest; when you fail to acknowledge the pact and the stakes... they no longer apply to you.
I am not a flag waver - and Allah knows they've been misused... but I still read Ben and the boys...I still relish the concept - and despite being as much of an azzhole as anyone... I haven't forgotten whose interests that dirty old rag on a pole represents.
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